Speaker 2: 00:03
Why is a podcast that focuses on mental health and other aspects related to what goes on inside a person's test? We are by no means professional skills and only aim to make these conversations about mental health easier focuses. Nothing we say or talk about is professional advice, but let's explicitly mention it. If you seek professional advice or experience symptoms of an actual mental health disorder, please contact a professional or visit your closest center for behavioral health. You are not alone.
Speaker: 00:31
Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to You Are Not Alone. Episode on perfectionism.
Speaker 1: 00:39
So Cena, what is your view on perfectionism? Like how can it affect somebody?
Speaker: 00:45
Perfectionism is difficult. I struggle with perfectionism 110%. I know that for a fact. I'm an artist. I enjoy to create different types of uh things like this podcast, different pieces of art, drawing, and this perfection my perfectionism doesn't come all the time. It just comes again in waves where, but I think it comes when I needed to use it in my art and in my work. So when I'm really focused on something and I really love something and I really want something to work and I want it to be perfect, I force myself into this feeling of this needs to be perfect or nothing else. And that's what I believe perfectionism really is. It's either this is it and need it to be like this, or it's nothing, and I'm gonna get frustrated and angry. Perfectionism is driven primarily by internal pressures such as desire to avoid failure or harsh judgment. And I'm gonna ask you this how many times have you created something and you have thought that you want to avoid the desire of failure or harsh judgment? Because when we as artists we create things and we are gonna get judged on it, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. So, but when it's something you do care about, your music, some your art, what happens when it doesn't go your way?
Speaker 1: 02:23
Well, if you're a perfectionist such as yourself and my myself, at times it can really like weigh on you pretty heavily, you know, like can end up feeling like, oh, I'm not good enough, or you know, this work of art is just not up to par, like or so whatever, whatever kind of limitations you've set upon yourself on like how well you could do something, it can really have a negative effect on you, especially, you know, if you've done better in the past, you know, like obviously, like you want to give out something that is at the same level as as that. So when it doesn't happen, I mean, it's just kind of just not something that you want to have happen to you. And especially like this has happened to me a countless number of times, you know, because I've created many bodies of work, drawn a lot of stuff, like created different types of music and things like that, almost to like kind of like satisfy this kind of want to do like really good in these different categories, whatever it is I choose to do. But there have been again like a bunch of times where it's gotten to the point where I'm kind of iffy on something, or if I should continue working on it, or if it can get better. And you know, just having that perfectionist mindset, it just it sometimes it can be like pretty negative on you.
Speaker: 03:47
So I have an example. I really love photography, and it means the world to me, especially having my picture taken. And I had this incredible photographer, and she took a great photo of me that everyone else believed was great. I hated it. I thought it was, I thought I could do better, I thought my pose could have been better, I thought the way I was putting my hands could have been better, I thought that the body of work that we just did, we could have done it better. And I think there's the thing that we fall into the difference between perfectionism and why this is a mental illness is because when you are a perfectionist, you want to impose the impossible into reality. And I'm I hate the word impossible because I believe everything is possible. But uh when it comes to the factors of things that you love to create, and that is in your ability to create, and what you create at that moment of time when you are working on whatever you're working on, that everything you put in that's that's that's what you got. You put all of that in.
Speaker 1: 05:05
Exactly.
Speaker: 05:06
You worked your butt off to create that type of product and whatever it is, but in your head, there's a voice in the back that's saying, Hey, what this could have you could have done this, and that is your that is you trying to impose the impossible into reality. You shouldn't do that. Do you have an instance where you tried to impose the impossible into your work, into reality, I would say?
Speaker 1: 05:33
Yeah, um, I would say like trying to I guess go past my artistic abilities just because like I almost felt like it was expected of me, not just from myself, but like from others too, where I just kind of I felt like I was in like this kind of zone where everything was going right. But then when I looked back on like whatever body of work it was that I was working on at the time, it was like, damn, like I actually don't like this. And I was like nitpicking everything, but everything that I was nitpicking at was really out of my control. Like it, it's just something that in order to fix was just like nothing really realistic. Like I couldn't set a realistic goal for myself to better myself at these different things, or it was just so out of reach that thinking about it too much would just like weigh me down like pretty heavily. So in this case, it was just like it was one of the worst experiences because like you almost feel like a failure, even though you're not. It's just you either over expecting something from yourself, or you know, you just kind of come up with this false kind of thing that you want people to see you as, or what you want them to perceive when they look at your work of art or anything like that, or how you even ultimately want to look at whatever it is that you made. And like it's just so hard to differentiate at first, like what is possible and what is impossible to like work on, you know. And um, if you if you can't really draw the line between those two things, it just really it's just it has a negative effect on your mental health. So that's why it just relates so heavily to all the other topics that we we've talked about and are going to talk about because it definitely fits within that category, you know, something that people can find help for and also just do better at, or you know, just find professional help in being able to manage like this this kind of mental illness.
Speaker: 07:46
And you're your biggest critic. Exactly. You whatever thought that pops up into your head after you create a body of work or whatever you do, you're your biggest critic. You are the one that's holding yourself back from the things that you want to do. Because imagine, now let's just say that the thought wasn't in your head, and whatever you created, you dropped. Whatever you wanted, you did. That's the problem that we're facing is that we're facing so much judgment and that we're scared to drop our bodies of work because we're scared of how we're gonna be judged for it. What are people gonna think? Who's gonna think what? And that's when we fall into this cycle of being perfect. And and I guess uh what I'm trying to understand of perfectionism is is it me that's demanding perfectionism? Or am I trying to create this piece of artwork and make it perfect so that other people look at it as being perfect and that it's a great body of work? That's where I'm trying to understand the line.
Speaker 1: 08:52
I think that it's just like becoming obsessive with acceptance, you know, and like at some point, like it can be good, but then if continued, it's just kind of it's just really bad for you, you know. Like, of course, people can like identify that as like a drive, but there are times when that kind of drive is just it's not gonna do anything good for you, you know. So it's just it's just something that you need to work on. But then also I feel like having confirmation from others helps you kind of see the reality and like what you perceive is good. Because I mean, if you really think about it, everybody, you know, they perceive things differently and like what is good and what's not. So it's almost like if you're a perfectionist, all of the bad things that you think you're doing really come to light in like the forefront of your mind when really like they're not even a factor in how somebody else views it. Yeah. You know what I mean? And it's just it, if you're in that position, it sucks. Like, I'm not gonna lie to you guys, it just it's one of like the worst feelings ever. But the best thing to do is just show, show what you did to your friends or family. I'm sure like they'll they'll they'll love it. And I think one of the one of the things that kind of pushes us to become a perfectionist is not getting the initial like okay from somebody, like, oh, this is really great, and things like that. And it just kind of becomes an obsession where you want to continue and then finally get that confirmation that like you're good, or like whatever you created is like really good.
Speaker: 10:35
Yeah, and you don't need that confirmation. No, you don't. You are your confirmation. Exactly. If you think it's great and you love it, nobody else's opinion should matter. Yeah, nobody can tell you no, because it is your piece, you're you put in the time, no one knows how much effort you put in, no one knows the blood, sweat, and tears that you put into whatever you work on. The idea of perfectionism can not only be so negative to your mental health, but on top of that, it can hold you back from achieving greatness. Because imagine if you do create a piece of artwork and you hate on it and you never release it, and you never drop whatever you want to drop, or do whatever you want to do, and then you find out years later that that was a beautiful whatever piece of artwork, whatever you did, and you get why you created it and what you understand of it, that's that's the problem.
Speaker 1: 11:36
Yeah, like it's just it's just gone. Yeah, it it's almost like um I think it was like a quote from Jordan, like you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Exactly. And like if you don't if you don't see this as yourself holding your own self back, it's it's just really hard to get past it. But I mean, it's it's really easy to get inside your own head, especially like when you're first starting out doing whatever it is you love to do, and you don't kind of get that feedback from somebody. Because that's like really what drives us to continue. But then later on we realize, oh, that doesn't really matter. Like, I'll just be great doing whatever I want to do. I'm happy doing what I want to do. But sometimes people get lost in that beginning stage where like even the littlest thing matters from friends or family or from somebody from your peers, from people you look up to. Like, let's say, like, there there have been times like you know, where I've created a body of art and like sometimes I'll get confirmation from people like, wow, this is like really good, or like I love the way you drew this, or I love the way you sang this. But then the one person who I wanted to hear back from, like the one person who like who's the reason why I like drew this body of work or why I like made the song for, it's like there's there's nothing there. So because of that, it's almost like like a kick in the ass where I'm just like, well, fuck, like how do I get that?
Speaker: 13:05
Right.
Speaker 1: 13:05
Like, how do I get what I want? And then it becomes like this obsessive thing, and it's not something that you want because it can lead to depression, it could lead to anxiety, because you're almost setting yourself this kind of like false goal that's something that applies to only one thing that you're thinking about, but not to reality. So, I mean, when when you're when you become like a perfectionist to like a toxic level for your own self, it's like you just need to take that time and just really like step back, look at reality, even though it's kind of hard, but like I mean, you just need the people like surrounding you. If you're like if you're kind of lost, you know, just ask a friend, like, you know, or do stuff with other people. I think one of the things that really helped me past the kind of bad stages of perfectionism is kind of looking at other friends and like what do they do? And like, I'm like, wow, you like you did a really good job. Like, even with you, like, I love the pictures that you take, I love the this company that you created, I love this podcast that we're doing, just things like that. And you that's when you really see the beauty in life and then also the greatness in others, and then it in a sense, when you reflect on others' accomplishments, that's when you can like look back at yourself. Because obviously, as humans, like I I firmly believe that when we're first starting out in life, like we're trying, we're like looking at others, trying to like mimic something, trying to recreate something that we've seen. And then later on, once we get like this comfortable feeling and you know what others are about, that's when you like reflect it on your own personality. So, like, this is just one of those things where you just take from your friends or family, and then it all comes back to you when like the time's right, when you are ready to create when you what you want to create, or kind of let this anxiety of fulfillment become like more realistic than these kind of like false things that like you came up with on your stuff. Right, yeah.
Speaker: 15:20
So we can overcome perfectionism. And you, if you're listening to this, most likely deal with perfectionism, but so something I do in my artwork now with my photography is I don't force it. If I go out there, I don't take a bunch of pictures, I take a couple, I look at them, and if they and if they're great, great. And if they don't work, take a couple more, and if those don't work, I don't force it. Don't force your artwork because it won't come. You won't create the best quality of work by pushing and forcing yourself to do something that you're just not in a comfortable place to do. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, and maybe it's just not the day. Maybe you're just not not feeling yourself today, and that's okay. We're not at 100% every day. How do you overcome? What would you tell someone who's a perfectionist? How do you help them overcome their work?
Speaker 1: 16:18
Honestly, you just need to take the time and like I said, like look for inspiration, whether it's in others, whether it's in things you watch, videos, things like that. Like these are things I do every single day. Like I'll listen to music, I'll watch videos. If I'm not conversating with a friend or a family of mine, it's just like you need to have the willpower to actually look and search and also, you know, just see like the greatness and things, and just and just continue to work on the way that you perceive things around you. Because then that'll help you become well grounded on what is actually real around you. Because I mean, we all have extensive minds and like we can all think what we want to think, and sometimes we can get off on like these trains of thoughts that just aren't they they aren't real. So, what really you need to do is just try these exercises, basically come back down to earth by seeing like how other people uh interact with things, how how you see this video. It's basically all about inspiration. And in in conclusion, like what I think as far as like helping yourself with when it comes to trying to get rid of this perfectionism mindset that you have or may have or you see in somebody else, it's it's just like you just need to look for inspiration because that's how that's like the one of the most basic forms of learning something. Like it's not it's not like sitting down in a classroom or watching all this stuff, it's just being inspired to actually do something and to actually uh follow in somebody's footsteps. Like I feel like people today are like really scared to like copy, but if it helps you go on the right path, then don't be afraid to do something similar to it, you know, and then you won't be stuck in this kind of mindset that you created for yourself and you'll just be in a better mental state.
Speaker: 18:24
100%. And we here are here to help you focus on creating a better mental health for yourself. And so with that, we come to a conclusion, to an end of season one. Yes. And we really do thank everyone for listening. We really appreciate everyone who made it this far. If you've listened to all of them, if you listen to one episode, we just really appreciate you sitting down and listening. And till season two. Till season two. Do you have anything else to say to our listeners, Cheyenne?
Speaker 1: 18:52
Uh, you all are great, you all have beautiful minds, and take the steps you need to get the mental help you need, and you will be on the right path.
Speaker: 19:03
We can't wait to see you guys next time. Yep. But please, please, please, please, please remember. You're not alone. I got your back. I got this. Thank you for listening, guys.