Speaker: 00:03
YNA is a podcast that focuses on mental health and other aspects relating to what goes on inside a person's head. We are by no means professionals on this field and only aim to make these conversations about mental health easier for the listener. Another thing we stay here talk about is professional advice unless explicitly mentored. If you seek professional advice or experience symptoms of an actual mental health disorder, please contact a professional or visit your closest center for behavioral health. You are not alone.
Speaker 1: 00:27
Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to You Are Not Alone. And today's topic, we're gonna be talking about narcissists. Now, Cena, what is a narcissist?
Speaker: 00:39
So my personal definition of what a narcissist is is someone who's overly focused on themselves, their self-esteem, and their insecurities don't exist, to the point of that they are the center of attention, that every the world revolves only around them. And I'll give you what the definition of psychology today says. Narcissism does not necessarily represent a surplus of self-esteem or of insecurity. More accurately, it encompasses a hunger for appreciation, a desire to be the center of attention, an expectation of special treatment reflecting preserved higher status. It's really difficult for me to understand this topic personally because I don't think I've ever dealt with someone who is a narcissist. I don't maybe it's just that I've never realized it or ever met someone and had like a conversation with them to be like that person is a narcissist. Yeah. However, I get where I've heard a lot of relationships that have ended badly. The partner looks at the other partner and says they're a narcissist for how they're thinking and what they're doing. And it's really difficult for people to say that because some people just try to take the hate that they're feeling for their other partner and put it into like kind of like a disorder and then throw it at them and be like, This is your fault.
Speaker 1: 01:57
Yeah, like I feel like a lot of people do that just because of a bad experience that they've had, but not really getting uh medical diagnosis from a professional.
Speaker: 02:07
Right. And I think that's the most important part. If you ever do feel like your partner is a narcissist, I would definitely sit down and try to have a conversation with them about like how they're feeling, why they feel the way that they're feeling. But have you ever dealt with a narcissist? Have you ever like had like any kind of conversation with one that you know?
Speaker 1: 02:24
Um, actually, in my family, my my mom used to deal with her father all the time, and he was what you would call a covert narcissist. And a covert narcissist is kind of like a shy and vulnerable, almost like a closet narcissist. And you can't really tell like from the outside, really, but they're more of the type of narcissist that has a low self-esteem, is always saying, like, woe is me, my my life is it could have been grand, but now I'm kind of at rock bottom, always trying to kind of fish for a certain type of attention. And they're also one to gaslight a lot and almost always try to bring an argument, or there's always an issue, and they're mentally manipulative. So growing up when he lived with us and uh my parents, my mom dealt with that a lot.
Speaker: 03:29
I think with everything that's going on, especially with narcissism, is that like it's a lot more with like family, and what we've researched is like it comes back a lot to like how you're raised and how your environment is and how you grow up and what life is like as you grow up. Because with a narcissist, they have such a focus on themselves that it's like this whole line and aspect of you don't your your emotions don't matter, it's all about them. Like their whole life is just about them. Like you try to bring something up to them, they try to push you away from your family and friends, they try to make you just look like they're the only person in your life and they're the only person that matters. When it shouldn't be like that, when you should actually feel empathy, you should feel like you should try to help your partner out. Because if your partner makes you just focus on yourself and nobody else, that's when you kind of lose the whole aspect of a partnership. Because everything that we deal with in life, we go through it together. You're gonna be in relationships where the person is has difficulty with the other things that they have dealt with in the relationship, whether it was a family trust breaking, a friend hurting them, so they try to push you away from family and friends. However, you'll see the difference in a narcissist is when they try to when you try to express to them your emotions, and it's kind of like the woe is me, and where the empathy is like lost, like it's not there. That's the scariest thing is not feeling the empathy.
Speaker 1: 05:05
Yeah. And uh one thing I would like to mention is a comparison between a narcissist and what we talked about on our first episode of the season, manipulative friendships. They have a lot of common traits, and a lot of the times a narcissist is looking to get that energy from you, they feed off of the attention that they're getting from you, things like that. And same thing with a manipulative friendship, you know, a lot of the times they're like can be like a narcissist friend where they want that attention from you, everything revolves around them, and all issues fall on you, and it's never their fault. And it's the same thing with a narcissist relationship, and they just kind of go hand in hand uh with each other. So a narcissist can be found in a multitude of ways, it's just between friendships, relationships, people at work, and a lot of people don't really know how to deal with these issues. Do you have any kind of suggestions or ways to go about dealing with a narcissist, or what are steps to kind of not lose yourself like you would with a manipulative friendship or uh any type of narcissist?
Speaker: 06:25
I think the one thing that we need to remember is that this is a feeling and this is an emotion, this is a mental disorder, this is something that someone does go through. Like, and whether it was them growing up or whether it was them feeling the way that they were feeling and how their environment treated them, remember that this is a human being. At the same time, as much as like you can call people horrible people for being a narcissist, you can call horrible people for having depression, PTSD, and things like that. But just remember, this is also a normal person that you just need to have the right conversations with to understand them a little bit better. Because some things that we go through in life, like we just don't understand. You may be a narcissist and not know you're a narcissist. And if you don't know you're a narcissist, then that's like me saying, I don't I have depression, but I don't know I have depression. So when I really feel sad, I don't know what to do with myself, which becomes difficult because that's those are conversations you need to have with yourself. But remember, like you also need to take care of your mental health. So if you are friends with a narcissist and you believe that they're a narcissist, remember there are ways to help them get the help that they need, whether it is going to a counselor, getting diagnosed as a narcissist, and maybe they're not a narcissist, and maybe you're just feeling the way that you're feeling. But I have to say, I think the best way for you to understand like how to create how to handle a narcissist is focus on setting boundaries for yourself. Take a step back. Look at your surrounding, look at what they're doing. Are they bettering your mental health? Are they making your mental health worse? Okay, let's go down the path of they're making your mental health worse. If they're making your mental health worse, then the focus should be on, well, how can I help them not feel the weight that they're feeling so that because if if you allow them to get help, then that slowly will help the relationship get healthier. Because if you allow a bad tomato to sit there and rot, then you're gonna get the horrible smell. You're gonna look at it, you're gonna get the feelings of just keeping it there. But if you take the time and to change the surroundings and to get the help that they need, then that allows the fruit for the relationship to grow even more. Because if it is your best friend, if it is your partner, if it is your husband or wife or whatever it is, or your child, you don't just kind of want to take the tomato and throw it away in the trash if it's something you really care about, you know? Like that's just a horrible way to look at it. Take care of who you are, set the boundaries that you need to to make sure that you're okay. But also on top of that, if you feel as if it's not bettering and they're not gonna get the help that they need, then as much as it hurts to say, cutting the ties actually helps. And sometimes if you need to do that, you need to do that. But I gotta ask you, Shane, if if you were to cut a tie with a narcissist, is there any way or a conversation that you could have, or is there anything you would do to just help?
Speaker 1: 09:23
Well, for me to help them, it's almost just like with any other mental disorder, because narcissism is itself a mental disorder, and it needs to be professionally diagnosed, and a lot of the times people just self-diagnose, like you said, like some people just say this about some person because of a negative or a positive interaction with them. So the first step would just be recommending them professional help or seeking somebody for them, but in order for somebody to get help, they have to want to help themselves first, and sometimes it just doesn't work out, and sometimes it does, and that's when you need to differentiate when to cut the ties, when to let that person go, because otherwise they weigh you down. And again, like everybody is a product of their environment. So like you said, with the rotten tomato, is this probably was around a bunch of other rotten tomatoes, and that's what made them what they are. Like I know fruit like spoils and yeah, no, things like that, but you get what I'm saying. Everybody is the product of their environment, and if everybody surrounding them turn them into what they are, you can't place the blame on this person. So when you deal with a narcissist, you always have to go to the roots or find somebody who is a professional, who can who is taught to do this, who knows exactly what to do. Because this is kind of one of those mental disorders that people don't really pay too much attention to, they just call people this and they label people as this, as a narcissist, and a lot of the times they don't take the steps to better that person, it's always just a one-way street, and then they blame it on this one person. But it's almost like a very long process that you have to go through in order to help somebody like this, with any really anybody with a mental disorder. You can't just be dismissive because of your negative experience with this person if you truly care about them. So again, you just need to get them the help that they need, but really it all lies on whether or not they want to get the help themselves.
Speaker: 11:58
And like you said, this is kind of misdiagnosed where to the fact of like calling somebody sad, like if someone's sad, you're just like you're depressed. When it's not like that, where like you if you are truly depressed, like that's something that you need to figure out. And whether if it if you really are or not, then that's something that if you realize that you are depressed and you don't seek the medical attention that you need, you're gonna go and go down a road of very it's very dark, and that's not there's no light at the end of the tunnel kind of focus. I think another question that I have that I'm trying to figure out is can like a narcissist turn somebody else into a narcissist? Like, can they spread their like emotions? Because I think one important thing is like in friendships, like your friendships kind of like lead you to where you're gonna sit go in life.
Speaker 1: 12:47
Yeah.
Speaker: 12:47
So if a narcissist is who they are and they don't know that they're like reflecting it on you, can you become one to a point of like where your mind kind of shifts? Because as a child, in the environment you grow up in, you have to have been raised by a narcissist to become a narcissist.
Speaker 1: 13:10
Yeah, I will the issue was with that is that if you're a narcissist, everything is centered around you. So if you have kids and you still make everything centered around you, I guess sometimes it'll make you that person, but most of the time, what that'll make is a kid who's always trying to prove himself, trying to make sure that they get somebody's approval, which it kind of falls in line with narcissism because a lot of the time they're looking for people's compliments, people's approval, but not in the same way, like not in a kind of mean way, I would say. But yeah, I I guess it could kind of lead to that. But a lot of the times in a household that is centered around a narcissist, there's a golden child and then there's a scapegoat, and there's uh there's that that runt of the the letter, you know, and there's the one who always gets the praise. And I feel like the person who always gets the praise turns into the narcissist, whereas the scapegoat of the family always tries to find it, but not in a mean way. Because you know, it's like the golden child was spoiled in a sense and always got what he wanted. So when he leaves the household out into the real world, it's almost like he if he's not getting that, he will be mean about it or he'll put others down and become that narcissist.
Speaker: 14:45
You know, I think when it comes to family, it's so important just because of how family can just change a lot of who you are. And I think cutting a tie with a family member who is a narcissist is probably one of the most difficult things to do. Of course. And if you're in a position like that, and if you ever need to do something like that, if your father, mother, grandfather, whatever whoever it is, remember that whoever you are cutting a tie with that I I get I get I get that they're family. I get how you're feeling, I get who you are to a point of I don't know if this is good for me, but remember this a garden of rotten tomatoes will create a garden of rotten tomatoes. It doesn't end up creating a fruitful special tomato or anything like that, it will just continue its reach. So don't allow yourself to become a tomato in that garden. Build your own garden. And the the most frustrating thing is is like it's family, but remember your mental health is yours, like that's who you are, that's what you're like feeling, those are your emotions. If you allow yourself to be in presence of just rotten tomatoes, you're gonna go down a path of just raw and tomatoes, and it's gonna hurt even more years later than it is now. So I'm not I'm not telling you cut the ties right away, like cut your family off, like right now if you believe they're narcissists. No. First figure out if there is a narcissist in the family, then figure out how to set boundaries and how to feel the way you're feeling and set the right emotions for yourself. And then I believe if you if the boundaries aren't working, that they're still affecting your mental health, that you feel like you're turning into a rotten tomato, then cut the ties. I believe cutting the ties should be the last thing you do. However, if you do plan on trying to like kind of say someone's a narcissist and then you want to slowly set your boundaries, you always got to keep in the back of your mind that if you end up like in a bad situation where your mental health is struggling, then you're gonna have to cut them off at one point because you're not gonna allow yourself to struggle and struggle and struggle and think that you're gonna get better because that that's not how that's not how struggle works. You either keep struggling or something clicks in your head, and it's like, ah, I'm this is what's been causing the struggle. If I can just cut it off, I can get better.
Speaker 1: 17:22
Exactly. And just like the saying goes, a rotten apple spoils the whole bunch, and really it falls true again, product of our environment. And if everybody around you is not helping you, you're not even gonna want to help yourself. So don't be part of the issue, be a part of the solution, right?
Speaker: 17:47
And and especially in a relationship, too. Imagine you knowing that your partner is a narcissist and you end up going through the whole relationship path with them, and you they end up becoming uh partner or soulmate or whatever they are, and then you grow and have a child, and then you're just kind of like locking yourself into such a difficult position to pull yourself out. So remember, if if this is something that you're struggling with, or know somebody who's struggling with this, like take the time to try to have a conversation with them. It all starts with the conversation, it's not very hard. It is very hard to do. I don't want to tell you that it's not very hard to do. It is very hard to do, but if you can just have that conversation, I really believe you're taking the right steps forward to getting to bettering your own mental health and bettering someone else's because it's also a human being. Remember, this is also another person.
Speaker 1: 18:41
Exactly. And don't lose yourself, don't let their energy affect you, let your energy affect them and help them become a better person.
Speaker: 18:52
Good energy takes a whole new level to bettering more energy and getting more positive energy in your life. Because positive energy, again, is way better than negative energy. We go through negative energy all the time, we go through positive energy all the time. However, having more positive energy will push you so much further in life than having negative energy in your life. That's very well said, and I think that's where we're gonna end this podcast. Thank you guys for listening. And I want to remind you please, please, please remember you are not alone. We've got your back and get through this, all right? Sounds great. Thank you so much for joining us today. Catch you on the next episode.